Thread:Deathstalker666/@comment-26005008-20160407215658/@comment-3547390-20160605235153

Wow, that sounds like a pain. It pretty much was something you tolerated, but doesn't seem like it was that enjoyable. I am glad we don't have that issue again.

Right now, I have only uploaded E4M1 due to E4M2 being one of the lengthiest parts in the entire thing. Just those 2 levels take up 1/3 of the entire stream. Adding in E4M6, that probably is about 1/2 if not more.

Yes indeed, that red thing was quite surprising, it was like the ultimate gibbing. Doom is a fun game and has plenty of good moments, but it also has many things I wish were better, meaning I have an odd love-hate relationship with it. Doom II completely gets rid of the magic and makes it just unenjoyable. Speaking of videos and whatnot, I think we will need to do a Doom II stream soon, since it feels more appropriate before jumping to Hexen.

As I was suggesting in the stream, Doom suffers a lot from making its levels into lengthy gauntlets. When a level gets too long, it becomes harder and harder to keep to a general theme, meaning everything just starts to feel dragged out and dull. It is the reason why you would rather listen to a 4 minute song than a 15 minute one generally, if it is a mastery it works well, but if it is not that interesting you just start feeling bored. One thing I actually like about E3M7 is that it is small and doesn't drag on too long. Most Quake levels don't drag on the way Doom does. Doom was focused on throwing a bunch of enemies at you, the entire point was killing lengthy hoards, while Quake started focusing on harder AI and less opponents. Granted, Quake doesn't have very complex AI, but the focus on a smaller number of enemies due to engine limitations meant that they had to make it more dangerous in other ways, the choice of which was more entertaining for me.

The other problem is that generally speaking, Doom is pretty easy. Even back when Doom came out, people complained that it was too easy, that is why Nightmare was even a thing. Note that there are ways they started adding challenge like having platformers and requiring you to punch Barons to death, but platforms are absolutely tedious to navigate. Baron punching can be a challenge, but the problem is that they just take so many hits to die while not doing much in the way of offense, meaning it just comes off as slow and tedious instead of intense and dangerous. While Hello was a clunky map in terms of design and was absolutely painful to try to play through, using the Axe on a Shambler feels a lot more fun due to the Shambler's ability to be a greater danger. Plus the BFG is the most OP weapon ever, the Thunderbolt I would consider to be like the Plasma Gun, while Quake has nothing that can 1-shot a massive hoard of enemies.

Doom's bestiary focuses on a lot of lesser 1-shot mooks, some melee opponents, and then things that are tedious because they take a bit to die and yet are spammed at the player while offering no risk (Barons and Cacodemons). Quake starts off with some weaker mooks before bringing out the Ogre, which has about the health of a Demon, but is able to do ranged attacks. Even the Vores don't take much to die, yet are big threats because of their pods, while the Shambler can be killed pretty quickly but is extremely lethal if you aren't quick. There is nothing that will make me spend 2-3 minutes strafing back and forth to hit a few times before dodging their slow moving projectiles once again.

Plus there is all the stuff I have mentioned before such as wall-humping being absolutely tedious and Doom being unfair in its methods of cluing you onto Secrets due to it, the Automap allowing maps to be more maze-like with the expectation that you can see wherever you are automatically, and MIDI music making the game feel more retro (plus being limited in sounds) and thus lose some of the immersion since most ambient tracks just come off as boring. While people talk about how bad the Bosses were in Quake, they forget how easy the Bruiser Brothers and even the Spider Mastermind are. Plus, unlike Quake, they didn't do anything while idle but stand there, making them feel unlike real entities and more like opposition made just for you.

Physics are definitely another area that Doom was lacking in, perhaps another reason Quake feels a lot better is because the Grenade Launcher is quite complex compared to your stock hitscan/projectile weapon. Plus bouncing gore pieces are always a lot more fun. 3d also helps, as I have said before, to make mouselook feel much more appropriate. All together, this makes your average Quake level a lot more fun than your average Doom level.

Plus the fact that I am obsessed with 100 percent completion, yet doing such means Item Hunts. I am so glad that Quake doesn't focus on Item Hunts, nor does it focus as much on trying to make it as fast through the level as possible like Doom's Par time. The focus on minimalism was also important, the HUD started needing less space to show off the info and we didn't need any intrusive intermission screens.