Thread:Deathstalker666/@comment-1915529-20140702204420/@comment-3547390-20141031015803

Eh, I am not that big on Assassins. Maybe I was spoiled by the Thief 2 levels, but I just felt Assassins had no re-playability and was too large whist being empty. I thought it was weak level design to have so many large open areas with little to no purpose.

Funny you mentioned that as I was going to say the same about the Hammerites. I ended up deleting that sentence as it didn't really fit to what I was talking about and I felt it was long enough as it was, but you are right with what you say. The Hammerites wanted to improve upon mankind, having technology and building towards the future. However, the Hammerites did things gradually so that people would not be overwhelmed by technology and only did things they felt were useful. The whole religion of the Hammerites focuses on their tools, their resources, to build a better future. The Mechanists praised change but did not really care about said changes. The Mechanists were simply being paid for giving out these mechanical toys, so they could have cared less about the benefit to mankind. Then their religion started preaching about how their toys were better than themselves, that man himself is but a tool to create better glory. When man's job was done, it was the duty of Karras to wipe them all out.

Interesting theory. So the conflict itself, due to being a balanced conflict to begin with, would stabilize itself by having rises and falls. The Keepers basically compressed everything in a bottle while not acting when the cork exploded. It almost makes you wonder if the Keepers have some deeper motive.

There are multiple city wardens... but you are right that Ramirez is one of them and the only one explored in any real detail. Well, there couldn't be a Trickster as they stated specifically that they weren't bringing the supernatural back (which is stupid as that was an important part to the world of Thief).

What is awesome about Thief and especially Thief 2 is that Garrett, unlike so many others, refuses his fate and tries to fight against it due to his rebellious nature. He isn't an RPG hero that just says "I am a hero, I save the world". He tries to steal, to benefit for his own desires, and avoid heroics. The problem for him is that he cannot run from his fate and he is forced into becoming a hero against his own desire due to the overwhelming wish for revenge.

The Trickster was made at a time when Looking Glass Studios had a belief that the end of the game should be rather easy. They believe that if you work to that last moment, then you shouldn't be cut off at that ultimate point. Apparently that belief changed for Thief 2 or they believed the Turret room would be easy :P.

I love Soulforge as well. That level defines the game, there is no way you can't be thinking The Metal Age when playing that level. The megaphone just creates that epic feeling as your opponent keeps mocking you, blind to your progress. At the same time you have to beat Karras by beating him at his own game, creating machines and using them against the inventor. Of course, I honestly started feeling it more with the quote scroll. Just hearing the gears as I worked on the quote scroll (there is a quote scroll in both Thief games, the first is in Keepers Training and is the EE I am talking about). The second quote scroll is a lot harder to get than the first one, I don't know how you would figure it out without some sort of guide, but it definitely feels more worth it due to the method used to obtain it.

You have to wonder if Karras' plan included exterminating himself as well. He was supposed to stay alive past the initial extinction of mankind because of his importance to continuing out the plans of the Builder, but he also talked about the day when he would need to gas himself. You have to wonder if that day would come or if he, based on his ego, would always believe himself to have some use to the Builder.

You are definitely right that we are unsure if the Master Builder is real like the Trickster as you could be right that the Hammerites just glorify their tools. Karras being a make believe god, one put on the podium by his fellow man, makes for a more interesting story than simply doing the inverse of Thief 1. They show both sides of the same coin, but do it in such a way that the second doesn't just feel like a repeat of the first in the opposite direction.

Think of it this way, most video games are considered to have the storyline of a B rated movie. You could not say Thief is anything close to the storyline of a B rated movie with its massive complexity.

Karras (one s, not two like you keep insisting on :P) represents true evil. That cannot be argued, there is good and bad in everyone besides Karras who is the embodiment of evil. Evil is when you are a madman, you loose all sense of rationale and thus it is only your logic that keeps you doing your actions.

Nice, breaking into a house and slaughtering too Hammer Haunts. Sounds like you should have fun with RTHC :P.

I have yet to play DS and I don't want any of the story spoiled for said reasoning. I hope it can continue the story, but I have my doubts as you have stated.