Thread:Deathstalker666/@comment-1496755-20170225142933/@comment-3547390-20170621221543

No kidding Vorknkx, I look forward to this. All three of us together for a stream :P

I still see a major difference between Unreal and Doom, the two games are nothing alike. There is actual world building in Unreal.

Well, I haven't tried to ghost TMA. Back then I never heard of ghosting, the conventional rules as we know them actually hadn't been written up when I used to play Thief 2 heavily. I wish I could play Thief 2 again, I miss it. As for how possible it is, that actually depends a lot on what you accept as ghosting rules. The official game has plenty of weird exceptions and exploits to fix it, FMs on the other hand are more shaky. It also matters how much of a perfect run you want to make and how much you don't mind using exploits. There are certain exploits that trigger me to no end. It is bothering me to talk about Thief this much, it is depressing that I am limiting myself to horrible Doom and Nintendo garbage.

Regardless, Return to Na Pali had more what you are talking about. Not the original game so much, no.

Dark Forces is just about completing that Dark Trooper mission though, it is "furthering" the goal, but so is going through Dark Arena. That is furthering your goal of getting off the planet. Truthfully I am not sure how much I can debate this, I don't remember the story of Dark Forces at all besides the Dark Trooper project. If there was anything more to the game, it was lost on me, which in turn shows how insignificant it was to me for it to exist. The textual briefings, long blocks of text, did not convey the mission in the same way that something heavily superior like Thief could.

That was the problem. Dark Forces had a story, but it had no way to drag me into it. It was a bunch of text thrown at the beginning of the level, as opposed to being sparsely thrown about throughout the level, and so you end up forgetting what the point of any of it is. I treated it like Doom levels back then, why? Because the world building for Dark Forces was still terrible, it was all Doom-style mazes. You know another game that has a lot of twists in its storyline? Daggerfall, but I would in no way say that had any relevance on the game having any quality.

Indeed, everything can be oversimplified. The problem with Dark Forces is just the lack of interesting stuff. You spend the third level in a literal sewer maze going around in circles for God knows how long. It is pretty much the epitome of terrible sewer mazes. Then we got some grey structures, the Death Star was a confusing puzzle, and that pretty much sums up the game in my eyes. Dark Forces just didn't have anything to make me feel like I wasn't in Star Wars Doom as soon as the game started, which meant the story you are talking about felt like it had zero weight on the environment. It is like when I read a Doom PWAD with a great story, then load it up and find out it is absolute garbage. Is it an extra feature for a great game? Sure. Would Unreal perhaps been even better with it? Not sure, the entire game would need to be structured differently, and the way it was designed gave off a great vibe of isolation on an alien world.

I could care less about modern games. I can't even play anything that isn't a terrible Doom level in 1994.