Thread:Deathstalker666/@comment-1915529-20140221183807/@comment-3547390-20140415074909

I just realized that Vork has been gone for half a month. Time flies by too fast.

Yes, both were done by a big person in the community known as Sperry.

It is sad, but the biggest reason so many maps fail is because they lose the intent about what the game is about. They don't make the situation challenging due to stealth, they make it either a key hunt or a TRB hunt. A loot hunt is a little better, but I don't think it should be hidden objects that defines a game's difficulty. Thief was about figuring out how you got past guards and got to your objective, which usually wasn't hidden. Actually, I think the levels I liked the least in the original game were the ones that had a hidden object that was necessary to complete the level- Assassins (Silver fire poker), Thieves' Guild (Silver braclet), The Haunted Cathedral (I guess you could say the Serpentile Torc based on your difficulty finding it, I think the area was in plain sight), The Mage Towers (Glasses), Undercover (Keystone Tree), and the Chisel (Strange Bedfellows). That sounds like a lot until you think that the area in Assassins is behind a banner (which you should always check), The Mage Towers is a book button (These never trip me up as it is almost expected to search bookshelves, what trips me up is when they throw a book in the darkened part of the texture like they did in T2 and a few popular FMs), The Chisel isn't really that bad find to find (I can't say too much, this is an Expert only objective), and ignore the Haunted Cathedral as it is controvercial. Others might have things not be immediately easy to find, but it seems you can find it with a good amount of effort instead of a lot of these FMs where you will run in circles hunting for some tiny object (all the while wondering if it even exists as it is possible that the FM is broken and doesn't have anything to find). So OMs do kinda have that benefit over FMs as you feel confident that there is a way forward in the original game. Still, in all 15 levels, there are only 2 where I could compare the difficulty of finding something to an OM.

Thief 2 is even worse. The levels are larger and thus should make things harder to find. The default lighting levels are lower, making things a lot harder to see. There are even things called secrets, which should be harder to find, yet are actually easier to find than the stuff in FMs (with a couple exceptions, which doesn't matter as it doesn't prevent beating the level). Another interesting tidbit, it seems the hard stuff in Thief 2 was usually only on Expert while in Thief 1 it was mainly on Hard. Let's see, in my opinion we have - Running Interference (on Expert I believe it impossible to reach the loot objective without finding at least one secret due to the gem requirement, I also can defend this one as the secret is rather easy to spot if you have a keen eye as are most secrets in this game), Shipping and Recieving (I defend this as well as it is easy to find if you think outside the box, you haven't seen this either as it is only on Expert), Ambush (I guess if you don't check your closet, once again somewhat easy), Eavesdropping (Do you consider it a keyhunt if they tell you specifically where the key is located? I don't as it is not a hunt), Precious Cargo (Remember when I said it was like T1? This is why, object hunts - The Navigation Globe which can be harder to find if your first time is on Expert, Captain Markham's treasure which is actually pretty noticeable so even people who don't need the objective usually find the area, Cargo Locker 5's Key. Yeah, this is the first one that reminds me of a FM.), Casing the Joint (The secrets sound intially like it will be the worst thing until you realize that there is a pattern and they become easy to find and the Coorespondence is optional), Masks (did we say optional? Well, if you didn't torture yourself last time, do it this time in a darker room), and Soulforge (Apparently Storage #3 which I find easy to find if you explore every room, I am talking about the darkened grates on the ceiling). So, cutting it down, we have Precious Cargo which is our first real object hunt, Casing the Joint/Masks based on which one you decide to hunt for the evil coorespondence, and Soulforge for a hidden thing to shoot a rope arrow into. So either the objects are hidden but not too bad to find like in Precious Cargo or extremely well hidden and require you to waste a lot of time to find it or just give up like the coorespondence. Soulforge shows something that plagues FMs, hidden surfaces which you are most likely not to see that requires a rope arrow to progress. Unlike in FMs, Soulforge only has it happen one time and it is done in the T2 engine which means none of the rope bugs.

So, fine, in a few cases they exist in the vanilla game. But most of both games are not tiny object or button hunts. Combine that with FMs with broken objectives (pretty common, which is why when something is hidden you almost start to wonder if it does exist due to these type of missions), corridor runs (you know what vanilla Thief lacked? 50 twisty passages that all look alike!), and levels where it is impossible to return (hope you found the tiny red button in the fireplace which unlocks a door before entering the lair of the demon with the expectation that due to the fact that one of the objectives says to return that you will return and not get a new objective which basically makes it impossible to do such). Then add spelling mistakes, texture mistakes (like seeing the sky on a vertical wall), and ambient lighting problems (we set it to 0 to make it harder, now it will be nearly impossible to see anything in a room that isn't entirely lit up. I spent a bunch of time in the mission I already beat as the ambient lighting was apparently changed for the worse). Welcome to the world of subpar FMs.

The only game where would I do that is Thief. I have played 124 FMs so far and 32 OMs. That means 156 missions. I don't know what I have clocked, but I think each one generally takes an hour (Thief 1 is usually 2 hours or so a mission, so it balances out with some of the early FMs which take half an hour). So I will guess I have clocked about 156 hours, though I could be wrong.

Now with an RPG I have yet to make it to level 20. Remember that they usually boost you through the first few levels (level 10 comes in the first day). I get bored rather quickly.

EDIT: Baldur's Gate has evil children. They tease you and are just filled with hatred. It isn't really hard to want to kill them. So I feel justified for doing an action that caused the entire town to attack me. No child left behind apparently.

One of my party doesn't really like that I am killing children. Not because they are good, mind you, but because they prefer to touch little boys that are living. Yes, this isn't exactly the type of party you would like to invite in your house. You probably wouldn't even want to be in the same town as them. Still, I had to confiscate the pedophile's weapons. I think he will turn coat on us soon.

The odd thing is how different this game is from KOTOR (both are made by Bioware) and yet they are similar. You can tell it is the same company based on their focus of the world and the complex storyline. I actually understand what is going on for once. I guess the problem with The Elder Scrolls is that they are good sandbox games, but don't have much to offer within besides randomness. This game is more controlled, yet it makes it so much more involved. I liked the mechanics of The Elder Scrolls better, but this game holds my attention more. The children I slaughter actually feel like people. The cows I slaughter actually feel like cows.

Aha! My intuition was right. Luckily, he was replaced by Mr Rogers. I told him I would be his neighbor, so he is probably my most loyal party member right now.

I think this game has brought back my enjoyment for RPGs. So far it seems like Bioware is the only company that makes RPGs that I enjoy the more I play. I think it is the approach that works, they give you such a freedom of choice that you feel like you are able to create your own awesome story, which captures what the entire genre really is about. Yes, all have leveling and other gameplay mechanics, but the main thing is to be part of a world bigger than yourself and to be immersed in the story. Otherwise it is a bunch of pointless clicking. The big thing about DnD seems to be the whole idea of choice and I think Bioware's games seem to capture it the best. I haven't touched something as involved since the days of Kotor.