Thread:Deathstalker666/@comment-1915529-20140221183807/@comment-3547390-20140609202159

In comparison to modern shooters it is better, I can agree with that. But that could be said of basically any part of new FPS beyond graphics. It is stuff like what you said that makes me believe I am not about graphics, but then we have Quake and Unreal where it perhaps is.

Platformers. That actually gives me a better idea of what I am trying to say. Doom, Heretic, Dark Forces, all these titles feel like they throw a varitety of challenges at you but don't feel like more than challenges. Do you get interested in the enemies of a NES platformer or do you just continue after figuring out how to dodge the attack? I feel it is the same with these old games, figure out how to beat the obstacle and then move forward. Quake did something that made it feel alive, a world I was interested in exploring. Perhaps all that was needed was 3d, but I am not sure. I have tried playing JDoom and I often get bored with the game, it feels like some survivalist mode of enemies that don't really matter. I wish I could explain what was so different.

Unreal doesn't challenge me as much anymore, yet I still enjoy the ride. I am nearly done with the Iron Thief Challenge for Thief Gold (Just have to do the bonus mission), showing just how little of a challenge I have anymore in that game, yet I still enjoy experiencing the world. When the challenge stagnates, it is the world that holds up and keeps me interested. Heretic is good for short term and is a good challenge, but as soon as I mastered the game I wouldn't have much more to enjoy as I would feel I was just running through corridors with enemies in a platformer.

Now you are hitting on something important. Lighting and shadows make the level. Most Doom maps were either - this place is light or this place is dark. We never really had gradual shifts or really a tone behind it, Quake uses its lighting to make a world that is dark even darker and emphasize the lighted elements while concealing those in shadows.

Hahahaha, Vork, I think you definately made some good points. The Iron Lich is perhaps the best enemy I have ever seen in a sprite based game and perhaps the first that causes intrigue. I think Heretic might have a factor to put it over Doom and Dark Forces if they use more of them. Actually, thanks, I think I just solved the mystery! If an enemy has one attack, you know what they will throw and thus they aren't as interesting.

I think Quake does a whole new level of AI for its enemies that isn't seen in Dark Forces or Doom. Enemies don't just walk around and throw projectiles at you, they are able to actively hunt you and choose the right weapon based on the circumstance (how many enemies in Doom have multiple attacks?). A former human will always shoot a pistol, a sergeant a shotgun, a chaingunner a chaingun,  a demon will always charge you, a cyberdemon will always shoot rockets, a Spiderdemon will always chaingun you, a Baron of Hell will always throw those green balls, Cacodemons always shoot projectiles, and a Lost Soul will throw itself at you. That leaves one enemy with multiple attacks, the Imp, which has a claw attack that players should rarely see due to needing to be blantantly next to the enemy.

Dark Forces had Trandosians shooting plasma, Stormtroopers always shoot you, Imperial Troopers always shoot you, Commandos always shoot you (look at the last three, we have a lot of men in armor with guns in this game), Probe Droids always shoot projectiles, Interrogation Droids always shoot projectiles, Gammoreans always charge you, Grans always throw Grenades (it isn't until JK that they got variation), Boba Fett charges towards you while shooting you or something (the whole Boba Fett? Where? Syndrome of this game makes it hard to tell), Diagonas attack you by surprise out of the water, Kell Dragons leap at you, and Dark Trooper P1 will charge you with blades. The later Dark Troopers get some variety, but we still have a hoard of enemies with only one attack.

Now look at Quake. Grunts are the guys with armor and guns, so they have one attack. We have Rottweilers that can leap or bite, but of course you never really have to worry about the bite unless you are right next to them. We get to E1M2 and we get the Ogre, an enemy that throws grenades that bounce and has a chainsaw (this chainsaw counts as it has a far enough range and is quite useful in tighter corridors, unlike in Doom where most enemies will still resort to the same attacks). We have the Scrag, which admittedly shoots projectiles. The Fiend leaps or will slash us, but distance states it will almost always leap. Knights charge us like demons. So the beginning enemies are a lot like Doom's or Dark Forces. Cthon throws lava at random and Shub-Niggurath sits there. Then we have Death Knights who will rush us with their swords or shoot projectiles, Shamblers that will fire lightning or rip us apart (their health means they can afford to get close), and Vores (yes, all they do is throw projectiles, but as they can track you there is a level of inpredictability). Enforcers, Rotfish, and Spawns all are fodder with one attack. So we have a few more than the days of old, then we get Armagon and have Gremlins with the ability to steal our weapons. Not everybody is just shooting a weapon at you (hitscan) or near you (projectile). There feels like there is more to the game.

So we get to Heretic and my understanding so far. Gargoyles either have a fireball attack or charge you, but neither has the other attack and so it is basically different enemies. Golems rush you or fire flaming faces (once again, enemies that could benefit by having their attacks combined), Disciples shoot four or five projectiles at a time, and Undead Warriors throw those blades at you. However, Iron Liches I cannot argue with. Tornadoes, fireballs, plasma, biting, they have a massive range of attacks which makes them deadly and unpredictable. If we have some more enemies like the Iron Liches, I think this game might have more of a long term effect on me.

Hehe, I need to get back to the series. I have been busy trying to move forward with other series that I haven't done much with Heretic. Well, I think I know what I am doing tonight (well this and uploading E2M5 for Quake).