Thread:Deathstalker666/@comment-24111404-20150623185240/@comment-3547390-20150710213604

Well, the Trickster didn't show his face until he was sure of victory, but that is due to intelligence and patience. The Pagans had to use deception to gain power, they were pushed into an unpopular role. While you could say the same for the Builder, remember that the Hammerites basically had control of The City at the start of Thief Gold. The Builder never showed his face at all during the period where the Hammerites were in control.

Karras wasn't a God though, they still worshiped the Builder regardless of being a splinter group. As for being a group based on balance, the Hammerites were the creation of the Mechanists and most of its members made up the religion. Very few remained loyal brethren to the Hammerites. Though they were about less progress than the Mechanists, they were still about progress. If the Builder was the God of Balance, why wasn't he worshiped by the Keepers or even the Mages? The Mechanists still followed the core beliefs of the Hammerites, they were just extremists.

Yeah, even outside of this website trying to bring up anything like Thief or even Quake just kills a conversation. I say I like old school games, people think Wolf 3d or Doom. They don't get Quake, they definitely don't get Thief.