Thread:Deathstalker666/@comment-26005008-20160407215658/@comment-3547390-20160613003924

You haven't even touched Q2! Honestly, I think you over exaggerate how bad it is, I would rather be stuck playing Q2 than touch another Doom map. Even the better Doom maps, I am not just making a comparison to the worst stuff from 1994, but anything found in Doom or any game prior to Quake. That is how drastic the separation between the two are for me, when I wrote up those I was always intrigued as to the next level for Q2 even if it wasn't anything compared to Quake. Doom has entertainment, but it is nothing compared to Quake. You are lucky I never had to choose between Q2 or Doom, you probably would never see another Doom video :p

I guess that makes sense, though it really doesn't matter which direction the secret door goes. It still is the same frustrating hunt by spamming every wall. It just isn't fun and at a certain point it doesn't feel worth it.

Well, everything I say is subjective. Still, I am willing to say that hidden objects can work as a way to make it more interesting for completionists, even if it devolves into a frustrating item hunt. You brought the hunt on yourself and can freely exit the level without the item at any time. Completionism is an extra challenge that will require the player to go out of the way. However, there are much better ways to hide things than behind walls that require you to spam every single one of them. It is much better when the geometry is designed to hide items, like small items placed under a couch or other piece of furniture, which Doom of course could not do. Yet another frustrating limitation to accept. Quake may not have improved on the system much, it still had things hidden behind walls, but the removal of the spamming from Doom was key to the beginning of more strategic design. I honestly feel level design in Doom and earlier games was rather simple, you create a room using a set of textures that show a bit of variety, then add monsters and figure out generally how much ammo is needed to progress, then add appropriate stuff. It has some complexities, but it feels so basic compared to later games due to the lack of that third dimension and the fact that rooms required little more than corridors or a prop or two. Compare that to the ceiling work of E1M1 of Quake, it just is a lot simpler and cruder in Doom. You don't even have to worry about ambient sounds, I don't think Doom had any, while Quake had several.

Heh, have a good night. I am hoping to get through this dungeon today, I am working my way through an extremely lengthy and torturous one. I always seem to find myself touching the tedious stuff for some reason, maybe I am a masochist.